I don't think that ALL of the customs that apply to dress for women in Islamic countries have their roots in subjugation of women.

Sure, things like burkas obviously do, but so far as head coverings go, take note of my comment up in post #5 about the requirement for head coverings in Roman Catholic churches in Canada back in the 1950s and 1960s.

Note also that head coverings are customary for men in many Islamic countries.

Also take note that the requirement/custom to dress 'modestly' in many Islamic countries also applies to men - it is terribly inappropriate to wear shorts, and if you look at most men in Islamic countries, you will see that their arms are always covered - short sleeve shirts are not worn.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you can't tar everything with the same brush of "subjugation of women" - you need to look at the context and the nuance of local dress customs. I've worked in a number of Islamic countries as an aircraft pilot, and when I see a whole bunch of labourers at an oil site out in the desert, with no women at all within 50 miles, and they are all wearing long pants and long sleeve shirts in 100°+ temperatures while digging a ditch, it's pretty clear to me that those dress customs have nothing to do with subjugation of women.

Michael

Of course not. If anyone here said anything about "ALL" customs, I must've missed it. But parallels to restrictions applied to Roman Catholic women don't do much to support your case, since that church--and many others you could name--ALSO have long histories of subjugating women, expressed in part by restrictions on their dress, behaviors, political freedoms, freedom, of movement, etc. And restrictions which are also imposed by cultural or purely religious structures on men certainly don't negate the rather more severe restrictions on women--one doesn't justify, or even dilute, the other.

These are not polarities--either all right or all wrong. Every culture, every country, every religion or philosophy exists on a continuum, and none (to my knowledge) are perfectly pure. As relatively sophisticated travelers [sic], we're supposed to be able to see the grey areas between the polarities better than a lot of people, and that's I'd hope for the wife and daughters of the OP.

At which point, they may decide not to visit any predominantly Muslin countries--a terrible loss to them, in my view--or even, like my sisters, to avoid the USA.

It's obvious I've got too much time on my hands while recovering from surgery. I hope my posts are received in the constructive spirit in which they're intended!

Mark

Hello

Does a man in those Islamic countries face prosecution if he does not?
Does anyone in Islamic coutries expekt a western man to wear that?
Does a western man face prosecution if he does not?

Did your canadian women of the 1950 face prosecution if they did not wear it?

If you as a western man wear shorts, yes that may be rude, but will you face prosecution?

Every culture has traditions but if only one gender faces prosecution for not following it, it is subjugation of that gender.
Downplaying is approval.

It is easy for me, as a white man, to travel in moderate Islamic countries.
Just don't be a jerk and you're fine.
I'm not sure if I would go there if for me would apply the same subjugating rules as do for women.

sushi

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