Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech
Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Photo by Alessio Corradini, on the Salar de Uyuni, Bolivia, of two locals

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Alessio Corradini,
on the Salar de Uyuni, Bolivia,
of two locals



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 145
Question Fuel pump mechanism question

So I decided to re-mount my fuel pump and wanted to check whether it was working.
I took it apart and to me it definitely looks it also has a vacuum plunger that closes off the fuel flow when the engine stops running.

However, my pump is flowing crazy amounts of fuel with the engine off.
To add to my confusion, there's no vacuum line to open up the diaphragm. Is it operated by the same vacuum as the actual pump?
How?

I opened it up put my finger on the blue circle (where the plunger normally sits):



I pressed my thumb into it hard (which should close it perfectly) but when I put the tank on PRI, fuel is rushing like crazy because of 20L of fuel pressing on top of it.
How in the world is that rubber plunger cap supposed to stop it?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 607
it is not supposed to stop it....


when the fuel level in tank is above that of the carb, the fuel flows by gravity to the carb. lets you get home even if pump doesnt work, just fill the tank...



only when the fuel level in tank drops bellow the carb, the pump helps it go up.


if you want to know if your pump works, connect a long tube to the exit, keep the outlet above the tank level (otherwise it will flow freely as you seen) spin the engine and see if it pumps fuel up (into some bottle of course )
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi View Post
it is not supposed to stop it....


when the fuel level in tank is above that of the carb, the fuel flows by gravity to the carb. lets you get home even if pump doesnt work, just fill the tank...



only when the fuel level in tank drops bellow the carb, the pump helps it go up.


if you want to know if your pump works, connect a long tube to the exit, keep the outlet above the tank level (otherwise it will flow freely as you seen) spin the engine and see if it pumps fuel up (into some bottle of course )
Ok but then why does it have this triangle part? (where I drew the circle, basically).
If it was just a pump, why have the diaphragm there that blocks the hole? I don't get it.
Are we supposed to turn off both fuel petcocks after riding each time? In case of float valve leaking..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 607
if you have petcocks with PRI position then they are vacuum operated by the running engine, so no need to turn off. they are shut whenever the motor is not running

in fact, a petcock with PRI doesnt even have an "off"....



With motor shut down, in normal and reserve positions there is no flow because there are no vacuum pulses from the motor.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi View Post
if you have petcocks with PRI position then they are vacuum operated by the running engine, so no need to turn off. they are shut whenever the motor is not running

in fact, a petcock with PRI doesnt even have an "off"....



With motor shut down, in normal and reserve positions there is no flow because there are no vacuum pulses from the motor.
Sorry - my petcock doesn't have PRI. I meant to say RES. I have RES/ON/OFF
So yeah, at the moment, even with the pump installed, fuel is always flowing to my carbs, even with engine off. At least - when the tank is >25% full.

Can you explain to me the purpose of the triangle diaphragm bit ?
There's a rubber cap with diaphragm on the blue circle hole, which is pushed closed by a spring.
It definitely looks like it's supposed to close off the hole.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 607
if you have decent float needles, leaving the tap on on/res is no biggie, nothing happens


if your carb floods, then close the taps.... for us old timer on british bikes that was normal life, shut off after every ride


thats actually is the element that pumps, its task is not to close the hole.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi View Post
if you have decent float needles, leaving the tap on on/res is no biggie, nothing happens


if your carb floods, then close the taps.... for us old timer on british bikes that was normal life, shut off after every ride


thats actually is the element that pumps, its task is not to close the hole.
Well, there's 2 petcocks... quite a hassle to turn them off.

Anyway


I'm not talking about the 6 star diaphragm. But the triangle thingy on the left.
Surely the big 6 star pieces are for pumping, not the small triangle one.

Last edited by Doubleyoupee; 17 Sep 2019 at 16:42.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 17 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 607
in double petcock bikes, i always use one tap most of the time, open the second only when the first started to run dry, switching both to res.


I dont have in my hands a tenere pump like yours to analyze, but worked on other ones for quads and karts. In those, the fuel always can flow through by gravity. cant help you much more than that, sorry.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18 Sep 2019
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 145
No problem.

So I opened up my spare one to take a closer look and figured some things out.

1) As you would expect from the arrows on the body, there's a hole directly from the inlet pipe towards the big pumping part, skipping the triangle diaphragm entirely. So yeah, looks like you're right and it's not there to stop the incoming flow. The valve in the pump also opens by pressure and allows flow. At least on this particular pump.



2) The fuel wasn't leaking past my finger or the plunger from the triangle. The fuel was making a full pass through the entire pump, and then returning via the bypass hole into the triangle. On my 1st picture with the blue circle, you can see it on the left of the circle.

3) So I'm thinking the triangle bit is some sort of bypass. I'm not yet sure what way though.
It might be, that with a full tank, the fuel pressure pushes open the plunger and bypasses the pump. Although I'm not entirely sure what the benefit here is?

Or the other way around, if the pressure on the outlet pipe is too big (full carb), it goes via the bypass and back into the pump when the plunger opens.
Again, not sure why because there plenty pulse-pumps that don't have this mechanism and they cope just fine.

Might get a syringer later and do some more testing.....
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
africa twin fuel pump problems flow_yrc Honda Tech 12 18 Jul 2019 04:52
Ethanol in fuel - older bikes information Jake Tech 21 7 Jan 2018 15:53
1150 gs fuel pump red beard BMW Tech 3 17 Dec 2016 21:39
'03 AT Fuel Pump Relay in New Delhi. Workarounds/ solutions theoverman83 Honda Tech 1 8 Jul 2013 17:59
Failed fuel pump controller andrewlawson South America 3 23 Mar 2012 23:34

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

  • Virginia: April 24-27 2025
  • Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
  • Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
  • CanWest: July 10-13 2025
  • Switzerland: Date TBC
  • Ecuador: Date TBC
  • Romania: Date TBC
  • Austria: Sept. 11-15
  • California: September 18-21
  • France: September 19-21 2025
  • Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:05.