I never bother with the torque wrench on anything but the four cylinder head bolts.
And now did approx. 100.000 kms on the Tenere, after not bothering.
Just develop the feel for how tight the bolts and nuts should be.

Further, if you have a scale in kilogram, you can convert into Newton by multiplying with 10 (9,81 in fact, but don't worry about that). In the same way, 1 kgm = 10 Nm.

Auke

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Auke
http://aukemarieke.blogspot.com

high everybody, high Walkabout,
Yes you are entitled to jump on thid treat I did start, apparently I am the luck one...sorry to hear from your problems...
My friend TONY ( a thousand times thanks...) did finaly the job, he did replace the paper gasket from the side cover, he did it xhile I was not there, to surprise me, so I don't know in detail how...
But off course I am very happy, there is no leak anymore...
Thanks Aukeboss, this is real value information, It is realy assuring for my trip, such info and right on line, fantastic (I start to appriciate the HUBB more and more)
One more question: Tofill up the oil
The manual says to fill
The oil tank (to frame) 2.8 L
The oil filter chamber 0.06 L

HOW TO FILL THE OIL FILTER CHAMBER?
(By the air bleed screw???? or....?)

So Walkabout, good luck and to everybody thanks for the imput,
See you on the....
Pol

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I told you 2 weeks ago it would be the clutch cover gasket at fault!
Don't try filling the oil filter chamber. Slowly fill the oil tank with the right amount of oil. Put in approx 2/3 of the total amount, start the bike and loosen the small bolt on top of the oil filter housing. When oil comes out, stop the engine and gently tighten this bolt. slowly add the rest of the oil and go ride the bike for about 5 miles. Stop and check the oil level. All should then be well.

yes I am driving, ... feeling very HAPPY....and ....feeling very confident for the Mongolia trip, Ill make some pictures of my prep, (double seat and ...more

Thanks again everybody
see you on the road....
Pol

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Hi Pol,
How fortunate is that, to have someone sort out your oil leak for you?

Anyway, I guess the answer to your original question in your thread (so thanks for letting me take it over now that you are back on the road) is, yes, gasket leaks need to be sorted out - I've just been reading on another thread about leaks around the oil filter cover on XTs, caused by stripped threads - I just hope that I am not going to find something similar when I get inside my engine (stripped threads that is!). So, I am going to do it myself and I have ordered a set of gaskets, genuine Yamaha stuff only, for everyone of them down to and including the one between the cylinder and the crankcases. Should be here within a few days and then the work starts.

Aukeboss,
I shall certainly be getting a feel for how tight the bolts should be, but if I can get them torqued to the recommended figures then so much the better - I may "experiment" as I take them off in the first place; numbers don't mean the same as the feel - 42Nm (4.2 m.Kg, 30 ft.lb) to quote the manual for the most awkward bolts - now what does that feel like?


Dave

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Dave

Hi again,
No gasket set delivered yet, but I have started stripping down the engine, exhaust etc in readiness - as ever, once you start perceptions/ideas/plans change! I will get about tomorrow and buy a few extra tools that I need!

In the meantime, I can't get the valve cover off even though I reckon all of the bolts are out now - it seems to be well "glued" to the cylinder head by the gooy stuff that forms it's gasket.
Therefore, grateful for any recommendations - I will get a soft headed mallet tomorrow but is there any technique I am missing! Obviously I don't want to damage that casting - it looks expensive to replace.

While I'm typing, I also wonder about the decompression lever mechanism - that is still in place in the valve cover, basically because I have a 2004 manual which does not mention it (2004 = electric starter, not kickstart). So, do I need to dismantle that before the cover comes off?


This is a 3AJ engine in a 5CH TT600R, 2001 model, so there must be loads of people who know the answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Dave (not confused, yet, but slightly doubtful!)

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Dave

Cancel that last plea! There was still one bolt in there, right under & inline with the frame and a bitch to get to therefore - the valve cover comes off OK once that bolt is out! In fact, I was surprised at how little gooy stuff is in evidence on the mating surfaces (and that gooy "gasket" was not leaking).

Gasket set arrived today so it is all go now,

Dave

ps Not sure that the engine was at TDC when I started dismantling - does that matter at this stage?

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Dave

He he he....

You are not alone to get frustrated with that bolt.specialy if you are working with the engine in the frame. I allways put cu-grease on it when refitting,makes it a lot easyer to get out the next time.


Tom.

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Places to be and things to do, see you all out there!!

Cheers.

Tom.

Thanks for that Tom, you have obviously been there, done that! Slip grease will certainly be slopped on. (Yep, the engine is insitu in the frame).

But the real bitch bolt of today has been the "next one down" - the crown head nut at the front of the cyl head, right in amongst the cooling fins and pretty close to the frame and right on the centre line i.e. frame, again ( - why do they keep doing that??). It was touch and go about dropping out the engine, but the manual says it can be done but gives no clue about how - hand stands with a ring spanner jammed between the fins and moving alternately either side of the frame got it, just.
Now ready to lift out the cyl head, which is fully loosed off, and start on the next layer of bolts for the actual cyl (and the manual looks OK for this next stage, but then it looked OK for the others!!).

Aukeboss,
I am certainly getting a feeling for the bolt tensions and I can't see me getting a torque wrench onto many of them later on, just the obvious ones! - will be glad to just get them back in and tight(ish). You will see from here, that I forgot about your point for that single bolt in the valve cover - damn and drat.


Finally, not too sure yet about re-setting the timing; are there any "funnies" about this? Seems to me that the camshaft drive pinion can go back in one of two ways (with 2 bolts at 180 degrees to each other).

That will do for today!

Dave

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Dave

to the best .. I also forgot the secret bolt once, that's why I remember so well :-).
Timing: yes, the gearwheel is not Murphy proof.
Crankshaft in TDC position, alinging with the marks on the casing. Camshaft in, lobes pointing down, chain on gearwheel, slack on the rearside where tensioner is. Then, the gearwheel to be fixed with the two stripes on it parallel to the valve cover mating surface, and the dot pointing upwards. Locktite the two bolts!

Do not damage your valve cover: if you do you'll also have to replace the cilinder head as they are a pair (the bearings for the camshaft drilled at once with head and cover mated).

Auke

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Auke
http://aukemarieke.blogspot.com

Well the cyl head is off and the carbs came off at the same time: I mention this because they have been an absolute pain up to now, jammed in against the frame at the back of the carbs (the manual says "remove the carbs" but it does not say how!). So, the 2 came off together now that there is a bit of room between them and the frame top spine member, but I can't see how they can come out otherwise, without my current dismantling of the engine - XT owners have said previously to move the airbox/partly dismantle the sub-frame but this does nothing about two largish cross members welded into the main frame which are right behind the carbs and more or less up against them when they are properly fitted. I would be interested in how other folk get the carbs off without taking the engine to bits (just in case they have to come out in the future!).

So, what did I find next but both of the internal cap bolts holding the cylinder to the crankcase, that are supposed to be torqued to 42Nm, were completely loose, i.e. they could be moved by finger pressure alone - I guess that is why the gasket has not been doing it's job!!
I now have all 6 cyl bolts/nuts dismantled but the cyl seems to be very tight on the piston (the rings presumably) when I try to lift it straight up and that makes me consider plan B.

Plan A is continue and change the cyl gasket. Plan B is leave the cyl and it's current gasket in place and tighten up the bolts/nuts correctly to the right torque values - basically stop now and start re-assembling, assuming that the cyl gasket is in good order and the whole problem has been the loose cyl cap bolts.

Opinions welcome please - I don't want to get all this way, put it back together and find oil still leaking (possible outcome of plan B if the gasket is knackered) but I am concerned about getting the cyl off the piston and getting it back on again over the 4 piston rings because it seems very tight to me (but I have never done this before so what do I know!!).

As I footnote, I have no idea any longer if the piston is at TDC on the compression stroke or at TDC on the exhaust stroke (I've turned it over a few times) - does that matter ultimately?

The weather forecast is good so I will probably have Sunday off this task and ride the wife's bike, so loads of time for your views to sink in!!

Thanks,

Dave

ps Aukeboss,
Thanks for your last posting - that basically ties in with my manual - one point is that I have looked closely at the cam gearwheel and it has the marks you mention but it has a choice of one "dot" at the top or three depending how it is bolted up; as you can tell I did not notice which way round it was when I took it off (and it does not look very much like the one in the pics in my manual, so it is a choice of two positions as of today).

Thanks also for the info about the paired castings - I wondered why there are no removeable bearings for the camshaft!!

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Dave

while you are there. No guarantee that the gasket and the large O/ring have not been damaged, and since you have the parts seems better to go full Monty.

With the head removed, TDC end of compression or end of exhaust is not defined, it is your own choice, so do not worry about that.

Do not really understand your description of the gearwheel, can you send a picture, so we can see?

Removing carbs: a b*tch indeed. The connections to the carb rubbers must push the flexible cilinder head comnnections a bit inward, then the connections to the airbox ducts can just pass the frame. But I agree, it must be your day :-)

Auke

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Auke
http://aukemarieke.blogspot.com

Hi again Aukeboss,

First thing is my mate came around late last night and with two pairs of hands (+ a couple of s), one each side, to lift it straight up, the cyl came off - it was dragging on the bolts/studs rather than the piston rings it turned out. As a point, the existing gasket and O ring look OK, but they will be changed anyway, of course, now I have got there!
So it is a case of back to plan A, the full monty.

I have a pic of the camshaft gearwheel but it is about 56 Kb, as "chosen" by the camera, which is too big to post on here and I have no idea how to make it smaller. What I was trying to describe is that there are 3 "dots" marked in the gearwheel next to one of the fixing bolts and there is just one of the same type of "dot" next to the other fixing bolt - because there are only two fixing bolts then there are just 2 ways of fixing the gearwheel to the camshaft, so which way round does it go?
Put another way, with the timing marks on that gearwheel set horizontal/flush with the cyl head top surface, I have a choice of 3 dots to the top or 1 dot to the top - does it matter which way this is done, so long as the timing marks are alined?
The gearwheel "detail" markings described above are a bit different from the ones shown in my manual on cd but that manual is for a 2004 TT600RE so that may not mean much; the timing marks are clear enough however.

I take your point about now that the head is off the piston position is not relevant (i.e. it is all about getting the timing marks at the top and those on the crankshaft in alignment).


That's where I am right now; one general question is - is it a good idea to copper slip all of the fixings for the cylinder, cylinder head and rocker cover or only certain ones? The reason I ask is that the grease will affect the torques that are recommended for the various fixings and I assume that the values in the manual are based on "dry" bolt/nuts/studs (I don't want those 42 kNm cap bolts to come loose again!!!).
My last question for tonight is: I have just realised that the first gasket to be fitted between the crankcase and the cyl can go in either way up; it does not have a unique way of going in like the next one for the cyl head - the manual says fit it as per the illustration but that picture is not very good or clear about which way round the gasket is. So, which way is up for this gasket? (The difference appears to be a few (3 actually) little protrusions on the gasket that stick out a bit when it is bolted up - the choice is one to the front with two to the back, or vice versa.

Apologies for the long posting!!

Cheers,

Dave

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Dave

I have a pic of the camshaft gearwheel but it is about 56 Kb, as "chosen" by the camera, which is too big to post on here and I have no idea how to make it smaller. What I was trying to describe is that there are 3 "dots" marked in the gearwheel next to one of the fixing bolts and there is just one of the same type of "dot" next to the other fixing bolt - because there are only two fixing bolts then there are just 2 ways of fixing the gearwheel to the camshaft, so which way round does it go?
** No matter. As long as, with the piston in TDC, the gearwheel fixed to the camshaft, the cam lobes point downwards and the two stripes on the wheel align with the mating surface of the valve cover. Or don´t you have the two stripes?

Put another way, with the timing marks on that gearwheel set horizontal/flush with the cyl head top surface, I have a choice of 3 dots to the top or 1 dot to the top - does it matter which way this is done, so long as the timing marks are alined?
** No.

The gearwheel "detail" markings described above are a bit different from the ones shown in my manual on cd but that manual is for a 2004 TT600RE so that may not mean much; the timing marks are clear enough however.

I take your point about now that the head is off the piston position is not relevant (i.e. it is all about getting the timing marks at the top and those on the crankshaft in alignment).


That's where I am right now; one general question is - is it a good idea to copper slip all of the fixings for the cylinder, cylinder head and rocker cover or only certain ones? The reason I ask is that the grease will affect the torques that are recommended for the various fixings and I assume that the values in the manual are based on "dry" bolt/nuts/studs (I don't want those 42 kNm cap bolts to come loose again!!!).
** I never bother. That's no answer I know. You'lll probably be a bit more accurate with the coppaslip.

My last question for tonight is: I have just realised that the first gasket to be fitted between the crankcase and the cyl can go in either way up; it does not have a unique way of going in like the next one for the cyl head - the manual says fit it as per the illustration but that picture is not very good or clear about which way round the gasket is. So, which way is up for this gasket? (The difference appears to be a few (3 actually) little protrusions on the gasket that stick out a bit when it is bolted up - the choice is one to the front with two to the back, or vice versa.
Install it so that all the holes line up with the items that they should line up with (yes, difficult to explain). You'll find that the rearmost bolthole for the allen bolt on the chain tunnel will only line up in one position.

Do not forget the big O-ring at the foot of the cilinder!

Auke

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Auke
http://aukemarieke.blogspot.com

Hi Auke,
Many thanks once again for the advice! I will have another look at that bottom gasket - I am pretty sure that it can be inserted either way up, unlike the next one up which is definitely not symmetrical. I will make sure that all the pins, oilways etc are not blocked by the gasket.

The gearwheel clearly has the marks for horizontal alignment with the cyl head so no problems there - I've even read your earlier posts in other threads about these marks may be slightly out depending on wear of the timing chain.

Do you use the gooy stuff with these gaskets? (I will be using Solvol Blue instant gasket for replacing the rocker cover) - the guy who supplied them said not, but it is obvious on the various mating surfaces on this bike that some sort of "black stuff" has been used on all of the mating surfaces; I am sure of this because it is taking ages to get it all off without scratching those surfaces.

The timing: everything is clear to me except - Do I have to take off the left hand crankcase cover to align the various marks at the bottom end? My manual is for a complete strip and assemble so the pics have the cover off anyway - of course mine is not off (not yet anyway!!). I have seen the smallish screw and plastic crank cover that are in the left cover but I have not investigated them as yet. All this follows on from your point of two days ago -- "Crankshaft in TDC position, alinging with the marks on the casing".

Cheers,

Dave

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Dave