I am after a bit of advice. Having never had a bike with a dry sump and no looking glass on the engine to check the oil I have followed the manual to check my oil.
Before I did this I checked the dip stick and there was not oil on it, so I started the bike and ran it for 15/20 seconds in the upright position before turning it off and leaving it a couple of mins and re checked the dip stick, the oil was at the halfway point, so it was ok according to the manual.

The question I have is why was there no oil at all on the dip stick before I ran the engine? Should that be the case?

Thanks in advance

Wayne

__________________
The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

Its normal, the oil settles a bit, down in the bike.

For me, it has always been best to check oil after a long ride, where the oil was nice and hot. That gave me the most accurate and constant reading.

Thanks a lot
Wayne

__________________
The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

Thanks Mezo

I can see the oil when i look in to the neck it just didn't touch the did stick until i had started the engine for the allotted amount of time, then it was good

Wayne

__________________
The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

I still cant get my head round this, or am I just been solid

Cheers

Wayne

__________________
The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

To help you understand it, the system is designed to not have the oil sitting in the engine,(hence- "dry sump") this way it can be a shorter/more compact motor, among other things. There still will be a small amount in there, maybe 1/2 quart, but otherwise the pump is always sucking the oil out and pumping it back into the tank.

There is a check valve inline from the tank, that is supposed to hold the oil from gravity flowing down into the motor when it isn't running so when you pull the dipstick all the oil that isn't supposed to be in the motor is in the tank, where you can read the amount. If your check valve is leaking, every time you shut the motor off, the oil in the tank will slowly flow down and fill the crankcase(like sand in an hourglass), it usually doesn't just dump out, but flow slowly like a seeping seal, may take a day to empty the tank, may take 4 weeks, depends how bad the check valve is leaking.

Anyways, because of that design, when you check your oil level, you need to start the motor so the pump can suck any oil that may have leaked down there, out of the crankcase(it pumps more out than what gets pumped into the motor) and put it back into the tank where it can be read. That is why a person is supposed to run the motor, then shut it off, wait a minute or 2 (lets the oil settle in the tank), then pull the dipstick to read it.
If you don't first run the motor,the oil that may have seeped past the check valve won't be in the tank and a person will add oil to get it up to the level but now it will be overfilled.
Hope that helps, it's my short version of how it works

jjrider
Yes I am happy with that thx a lot, very well put
Cheers
Wayne

__________________
The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

It can be a bit tricky this system, on mine sometimes oil is up there when stopping engine and sometimes its not. Thinking damn i need to refill, and then you overfill. Was the same on my 88mod with oiltank in the back, what happens i dont know.

I have noticed on my 84 and 86 that you MUST run the engine longer than just pumping the oil out of the sump. Oil expands when hot. My standard practice now is to startup, run, shut off. Check oil. It will be down on the dip stick but it has sufficient oil. Now I ride for about 10 minutes to get the oil hot or very warm. This also ensures the sump is scavenged and oil in the head is returning faster due to being warm. I have seen the oil read at 1/2 way mark on the dip stick when cold and after a short run and at the full mark after a warm up ride.

My 2 bikes do use a bit of oil, the 86 not much, the 84 much more due to rings not seated correctly. When I fill with new oil I go to the 1/2 way mark then to the warm up ride and verify it is now at the full mark. This has worked several time during our Colorado rides a while ago.

JJ, I'll let you know how the rings look and after honing and a new set, how it is performing.

Steve

__________________
'84 XT600 is now bored to 2nd oversize and new OEM pistons and rings installed. No more smoking.

Thanks for the added info guys
Wayne

__________________
The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

Thanks a bunch. This solves my problem!

Use the spec, fill up oil 2,8l and you know its ok. These bikes dont use oil between changes unless you need overhaul or have major leaks.

After coming back from BKK I decide to run the bike up to see if it would start, it had been sat for nearly 2 months. Before I started it I checked to see if there was any oil in the neck, nothing, it was bone dry. I started the bike (it started first time) and ran it for 10 mins. After turning it off and leaving it a minute I again checked the oil, still the dipstick was bone dry. Ummm now I was starting to wonder, but I could safely say there was oil in there because there was nothing on the ground in the garage.
I took the bike out the following day (and took some oil with me) and I rode it for about 10 miles, pulled in at a parking area to let the oil settle, when I checked it the oil was there and in the correct place on the dipstick
Even though I understand how it works due to the explanations above I still can not get my head round it sometimes

Wayne

__________________
The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

Yes it feels weird sometimes, pull the stick when bike is running and you will see oil passing the top. And you have the option at the oilfilter if you remove the screw and there is oil coming out, then you will know its doing its turn in the system. I just fill up 2,8l and its ok, check oil when bike has been riding for a long time.

nice how you learn something new everyday.... knew about oil expansion but thought it was negligible, this thread led me to check exactly. I am building a new oil aluminum tank for my racer and turns out that at 150 Celsius you can easily get a 10-15% increase, over 2 litres of oil for instance, that's a good 200- 300 c.c., explains the tank "refilling" after a long ride i guess wasnt considering that in my calcs.

i see it's mostly young dudes here.... because for those with british bike experience, "wet sumping" as it was called was a common experience: literally ALL the tank going down, though with the very small crankcase for just the flywheel (pre-unit), it meant that it would get full to the brim and spit quite some oil from everywhere possible until it was back to the tank. it was very common to fit manual valves on the supply tube, which of course, sometimes you'd forget to open with disastrous results. later properly working check valves came into the aftermarket.