3Likes
![Reply](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/buttons/reply.gif) |
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Obidos, Portugal
Posts: 134
|
|
Problem starting from 'cold'
I've got a 1997 XT600 E which has been fine starting in the morning through the summer but has recently become very reluctant to get up and going. I live in Portugal so it's not like a cold northern European morning. I've tried everything the good people on other forum posts have suggested - full choke no throttle, a few twists of the throttle first, half choke etc but what happens is this: the starter motor turns fine (after battery being on trickle charge all night), nothing fires for the first few goes and then I get a single fire which dies immediately. I persevere and fiddle with throttle/choke combinations, get ten or so more short fires and finally, just before the battery has no more to give, it starts. I'm concerned about the damage this will be doing to the battery but don't know where to start looking for the problem. Could it be the choke not working? Is it something to do with the carb float (which sticks intermittently and dumps petrol on the garage floor when I stupidly forget to turn off the petrol tap)? I've recently stripped and cleaned the carbs and changed the air filter but it started fine for a few weeks after that so I don't think I messed anything up in the carb. I'd be grateful for any advice on where to start looking.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
13 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 827
|
|
Well,,,,, First would be fixing the reason gas is pouring out if you leave the petcock on. I don't remember if the XT carbs will dump the gas on the floor before it gets into the motor or air filter. You have either a bunch of junk jamming the needle valve or the valve itself is shot. Also, If your float is set too high(or not installed right after cleaning?) it'll also keeping flowing and not shut off , flooding the motor.
There really is so many things that can be going on but without being there it'll be a long drawn out thing.Some things that should be known to help,
1)Is the starter spinning it over fast enough , as in battery good, starter working fine ect..
2)Is it getting too much gas or not enough ? after trying to start is the plug wet or dry ?
3) are the valve clearances right ?
4) is the carb really clean , I know you cleaned it , but that's seldom done completely and often it takes way more than a person thinks to get all the little passageways clean , takes experience with carbs to know for sure.
5) is there good spark ? is the sparkplug new or in good condition.
That's just a start with the info given.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
14 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 135
|
|
Why are you having to put the battery on trickle charge overnight?..is it failing?.id be inclined to change the battery...
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
14 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Obidos, Portugal
Posts: 134
|
|
Thank you for the advice. I've done as you suggested jjrider and taken the carb out to check the float and valve. As I was doing this I noticed a small amount of petrol seems to have blown back into the air box from the crankcase. Could this be relevant? The float height seems ok and there was no obvious gunk in the valve but I will give it all another good clean and blast some air through the jets anyway. Nikroc the battery seems ok - charging voltage and voltage under load all seem to be as they should be. Once the bike gets going in the morning it starts with no problem all day long. I just trickle charge it every few days because of the number of goes it is taking to start it. My normal weekday rides are not long enough to fully charge the battery.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
15 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 827
|
|
It's sounding like it isn't getting enough gas for the colder temps in the morning. Whether that's is due to a partially plugged pilot jet , choke not working or simply not jetted rich enough I don't know. One thing I'd do it turn the mixture screw out 1 full turn and see if it changes for the better. Also what is the pilot jet right now ?
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
15 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Obidos, Portugal
Posts: 134
|
|
As far as I know (I've only had the bike since the summer) the pilot jet is the original stock Yamaha one. I've discovered I had a leaking petcock which I guess might explain the petrol on the floor. That seems fixed now and the carb is back on the bike with the mixture screw out one more turn but there is no improvement. Which leaves me thinking I need to follow your other suggestion of checking the starter motor and spark plug (which is new but you never know). I've researched how to check for voltage drop in the circuit leading to the motor but do you have any advice on how I go about testing the starter motor itself?
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
16 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Obidos, Portugal
Posts: 134
|
|
Sorry to keep banging on about this but I think I have got a step closer to diagnosing the problem. I could just do with some help in interpreting the numbers. I checked the spark by holding it against the cylinder head and it seemed weak and sporadic (also mostly yellow with just a hint of blue at the edges). The spark plug is new and held out fine on a resistance test so I figured the problem was somewhere else in the ignition circuit and followed the manual instructions for checking this. Two things showed up as being out of spec but I don't know if either are significant enough to make a difference. Resistance across the spark plug cap was 11.48k ohms instead of the specified 10k, and the primary ignition coil showed resistance of 4.9 ohms which is a little outside of the 3.4 to 4.6 ohms specified in the manual. Could these discrepancies be enough to make a difference? I just can't get my head around how these could make the bike so hard to start in the mornings but still allow it to run just fine for the rest of the day. Thank you in advice for any advice you can offer.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
17 Nov 2016
|
![xtrock's Avatar](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/avatars/Avatar141.jpg) |
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,343
|
|
No its ok, its not like you get 100% correct reading from all meters and the values are in range.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
17 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 135
|
|
Are you confidant its not the battery?...you should get a fat blue spark 'cracking' across a 2-3mm gap...at least that's what I've always looked for.
After the batteries been on trickle overnight,and is supposedly charged,do you have any idea what the actual voltage is?..it could appear to be holding a decent voltage BUT the cranking power/amps isnt sufficient to turn over a big single.
I had a CCM R30 with a 710 big bore kit on it..original battery struggled till i upgraded to a hyabusa one..same size and more amps.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
17 Nov 2016
|
![xtrock's Avatar](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/avatars/Avatar141.jpg) |
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,343
|
|
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
17 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Obidos, Portugal
Posts: 134
|
|
Thank you for the replies guys. The battery's static charge is now 13.1v, two days after I charged it and after a dozen or so goes at starting it. The voltage at the battery terminals drops to 11.5V when the starter motor is turning. Across the starter motor itself the voltage under starting load is 10.6V. I don't know whether that offers any insight into the battery's cranking power. I think I read somewhere that another way to check the spark is to put a screwdriver into the spark plug cap and hold the shaft near the cylinder head. Is this a good idea? Should I push the start button while I do that?
That plug color chart is useful - thank you - and looking at it my plug might be a little dark which I guess is carbon fouling. So maybe I've got to wrestle that carb out of the bike again. Grrr...
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
17 Nov 2016
|
![xtrock's Avatar](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/avatars/Avatar141.jpg) |
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,343
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_P-oAfJz28
Its a normal drop, no point with screwdriver when you have plug inside, i recomend you start following what JJ told you.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
17 Nov 2016
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Obidos, Portugal
Posts: 134
|
|
I'm embarrassed to say the problem appears to have been a dodgy connection. As I put it back together I noticed some crud right inside the positive plug that connects with the coil. I cleaned that out and the bike started first time. Yeehaa! I won't be stuck in the garage this weekend. Thank you for all your help - it's given me a great troubleshooting guide for any future problems I may have.
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
24 Sep 2017
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: scotland
Posts: 101
|
|
Connal..in yer first post...i have the exact same starting procedure...full choke half choke messdin wibthe throttle trying to catch it...engine starting every other second then dying...then when ye thinknthat battery is gonna die...it starts.??. But once started itl start all day long till you leave it overnite
|
![Old](https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/statusicon/post_old.gif)
24 Sep 2017
|
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 827
|
|
It's sounding more and more like you have something going on with your carb or something that takes way too long cranking to start when it's cold. These bikes should pop off within a couple seconds , even cold . Without touching the throttle , you should use full choke, unless maybe 60-65F, then no choke is really needed. It should crank over easily and in a couple seconds , fire up and idle a bit fast . Depending just how good the jetting is and what the temperature is in 5 to 10 seconds you can shut the choke off and have it idling normal . If it takes more than that and has troubles running once started then there is something wrong . You should never need to touch the throttle on these for starting , that's a big red flag .
Things I'd do to trouble shoot something like this is check engine compression first , just to know it's condition to start with. Then check valve clearances , tight valves cause hard cold starting . After those are clear then look into the carb for issues. Possible choke pickup issues with the hole at bottom of the bowl plugged and no fuel getting into that system so the motor can't get the extra fuel it needs cold.
.
__________________
'86 XT600/3TB motor,,, '88 XT600, ,,'92 XT600e,,, '08 Husky TE510,,, '05 DRZ463,,, '95 KLX650 ,,,'96 KLX650
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...
2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.
"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)
![Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.](/stuff/ripcord/ripcord-logo-250.jpg)
Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.
Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.
Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!
What others say about HU...
"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia
"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK
"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia
"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA
"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada
"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa
"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia
"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany
Lots more comments here!
![Five books by Graham Field!](/stuff/grahamfield/graham-field-2021-280.jpg)
Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook
"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.
Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!
New to Horizons Unlimited?
New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!
Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.
Read more about Grant & Susan's story
Membership - help keep us going!
Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.
You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.
|
|
|