Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech
Troubleshoot: Starter motor seems shorted? Troubleshoot: Starter motor seems shorted?
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts
Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Photo by Hendi Kaf, in Cambodia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Hendi Kaf,
in Cambodia



Like Tree2Likes
  • 2 Post By tk0345

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13 Oct 2013
Registered Users
HUBB regular
  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 20
Troubleshoot: Starter motor seems shorted?
Strangest thing, starter motor known to be working pre-rebuild. Now when directly connected to battery (old but charged to 13V) just makes (big) sparks like a short and doesnt move - at all.

Have disassembled and cleaned - no obvious shorts of positive to the ground. Checked continuity of windings following How to Test DC Armature | eHow and noted that all commutator points are continuous? is this right as part of the design - seems pos and neg brushes onto something thats essentially a short mightn't be the best way to design a motor!

All ideas appreciated, fustrated as its quite a simple device with so few parts. Could it be the battery? with no engine load its surprising it wouldn't spin at all.

Cheers all

XT600 3TB 1991
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13 Oct 2013
*Touring Ted*'s Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,673
12V motor is a 12V motor.

It it doesn't work connected directly to a bike then it won't when on the bike..

Sound like it's just toast.... I don't ever bother trying to fix starter motors once they start playing up any more.

It usually ends up a fools errand.
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15 Oct 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk0345 View Post
noted that all commutator points are continuous? is this right as part of the design - seems pos and neg brushes onto something thats essentially a short mightn't be the best way to design a motor!
Umm yes there must be continuity - otherwise there would be no current flow and no power. However it must have some resistance .. very low resistance .. lest see .. 100 amps @ 12 volts (typical max starter motor current) = 0.12 ohms ... so can you see 0.12 ohms on your measurement device?

If it worked before you mucked with it then you've done something wrong. Go back over what you have done.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15 Oct 2013
Registered Users
HUBB regular
  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 20
Thanks all for the support:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo View Post
Where is it sparking/shorting? two places to ensure isolation are the positive terminal post, the arrow is pointing to insulation.
Just sparking in the act of connecting the negative lead to the motor housing (I'm doing everything away from the engine/bike to rule out electricals). Took it apart, gave it a clean and did a continuity check with multimeter to make sure that neither of those two locations were contacting positive and negatice. Cable ties are a good solution I was not enjoying putting that together!

I've not painted it - perhaps I could've explained the arcing better. Just momentary when touching the battery cables then nothing - so I stop after a couple of seconds to avoid any damage to anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warin View Post
Umm yes there must be continuity - otherwise there would be no current flow and no power. However it must have some resistance .. very low resistance .. lest see .. 100 amps @ 12 volts (typical max starter motor current) = 0.12 ohms ... so can you see 0.12 ohms on your measurement device?

If it worked before you mucked with it then you've done something wrong. Go back over what you have done.
I suppose that makes sense, I guess I was expecting 180 degree opposites to be wired up but not neighbours. I'll repeat with some resistance measurements when I get the chance (was just listening for the tone last time) but don't expect a problem.

I'll try another battery on this the next chance I get
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15 Oct 2013
*Touring Ted*'s Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,673
You can just use just leads from it's terminals to a known good battery.

It would rule out the electrical system.
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16 Oct 2013
Registered Users
HUBB regular
  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 20
it was the battery
RESOLVED!!

Took a known good battery off another bike and it now spins up fine! Relieved.

For anyone in this situation, the voltage of your battery is not your only concern - if it can't provide the current you'll get nothing even if the motor is not cranking an engine.

Mezo, *Touring Ted*, Warin - thank you all for your replies.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17 Oct 2013
*Touring Ted*'s Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,673
Smacking a starter motor with a heavy piece of wood has also been known to work on many occasions too.

And I'm not joking...

Old school.
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18 Oct 2013
*Touring Ted*'s Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wirral, England.
Posts: 5,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo View Post
Well that was more for the starter motors with external solenoid that kicked the bendix gear into action Ted, these motors don't use that setup.

But yeah ive used that "method" many times in the old days on cars.

Mezo.
Yup....

However, it can work on the basic ones too. Sometimes they just get stuck. Especially if it's got a bad/dirty contact brush.

Did the trick on my old GSX400R

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
problem, starter motor, troubleshooting

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yamaha XTZ 660 (3YF) Starter Clutch Prob! Dyce Yamaha Tech 3 4 Mar 2013 19:45
Starter Relays -ralph- Yamaha Tech 8 22 Aug 2012 10:19
KLR Starter Stuck/Jammed? AVID Kawasaki Tech 5 7 Jun 2012 18:14
starter relay awolxt Yamaha Tech 8 29 Mar 2012 10:45
Electric starter for XR650R Chipompi Honda Tech 4 4 Mar 2012 23:06

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Ecuador June 13-15
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Date TBC
Ecuador: Date TBC
Romania: Date TBC
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

Your ad could be here, on EVERY page of the HUBB, or the whole website, or as many as you like!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:49.

Contact Us - Horizons Unlimited Motorcycle Travellers Website - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top