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Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Photo by Andy Miller, UK, Taking a rest, Jokulsarlon, Iceland

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Andy Miller, UK,
Taking a rest,
Jokulsarlon, Iceland



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  #121  
Old 18 Jan 2013
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Use gas with ethanol, or ad some carb-defrosting-alcohol (dont know the english word for it)

I've ridden down to -21C and have had no problems.
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  #122  
Old 18 Jan 2013
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Thanks Jens!

Gas with ethanol will probably be unavailable here, I'll have to check that out.

Is that carb-defrosting-alcohol available in gas stations or in alcohol shops (and maybe moonshine, which actually ethanol is)? what quantities must be used, let's say, with 1 liter of gas?

Hmm, maybe someone has tried pouring vodka to the gas tank? Hope the bike doesn't start vobbling around and loosing traction

P.S. here's the vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPdoGoO06Rk
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  #123  
Old 18 Jan 2013
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Here you get the carb-alcohol in most bigger supermarkets and at just about every gasstation. Its around 1 liter of this, for 30 liters of petrol.

Looks like this, often also awvailible in 1ltr bottles. You also use it for when you have/have risk of - small amount of water in the fuel. This mixis both the fuel and water, so the water "burns" away, rather than being "stuck" in the gastank or carb.

Its called ethanol or the technical term isopropylalcohol

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  #124  
Old 18 Jan 2013
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Thank you again, Jens!

I will certainly check this out.

I found this on Wikipedia: "It will dissolve ethyl cellulose, polyvinyl butyral, many oils, alkaloids, gums and natural resins." so in concerns me, won't it dissolve rubber o-rings at the petcocks, plastic gas tank, rubbers in carb? Or these rubbers and plastics are not "natural" and will not dissolve?

Anyway, if it's used in this product, it must be safe :confused1:

Tomorrow - going shopping for this stuff!
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  #125  
Old 18 Jan 2013
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Couple of thoughts:

Ethanol has been linked with serious problems with plastic fuel tanks - it is thought that it softens the plastic and causes it to deform. Ducati have had a huge court case against them in the States over this, and boat owners (with tanks moulded into the hull) are very worried too. Triumph plastic tanks are known to 'grow' a few mm when taken off the bike if ethanol fuel has been used, and have to be refitted pretty brutally. Probably linked with keeping the ethanol-added fuel in the tank for a long time, so the occasional use would probably not be a problem, perhaps up to a 1:10 ratio.

When I had my 1200 Bandit I used to get a lot of carb icing (even though it had carb heaters) and I used Silkolene FST in the fuel, about 5 ml per litre. That worked fine.
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  #126  
Old 19 Jan 2013
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Probably adding a little alcohol on occasion during winter then burning it off would be a good idea to keep the tank from rusting where the water sits.
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  #127  
Old 19 Jan 2013
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Okay, now I'm a bit more worried.

So if I use it in a ratio of 1:30 as Jens said, maybe it's okay? Or use it in very small quantities like you BlackDogZulu?

Or maybe I should swap the gas tank for the original metal one for the winter? And hope that ethanol-based additives don't damage the carburetor components?

Maybe I just need to use vodka or moonshine?

Hmmm, I think I will have to check this out by testing... Mix in a little bit of additive and see how it (does or doesn't) frost.
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  #128  
Old 20 Jan 2013
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Don't worry. If you are using the bike regularly and changing the fuel, I don't think there is a problem. If you left a high-ethanol mix in the tank over winter, maybe ...

If you are leaving it unused, then adding fuel stabiliser or draining the whole system is best practice anyway. But if it's just to cure carb icing as per the original post, then I'm sure a bit of ethanol added to the mix won't do any harm.
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  #129  
Old 20 Jan 2013
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Thanks BDZ.

So yesterday I bought some of this stuff. Ingredients: propan-2-ol (Wiki says it's the same, Isopropyl alcohol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

Instruction says 500ml bottle is enough for 60l of petrol. So should be enough for three tankfuls.

Testing awaits, hopefully today, and I'll keep you guys updated

Thank you all for the help!
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  #130  
Old 20 Jan 2013
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Okay:
filled the tank, poured "the stuff", bike started nice.

I let it idle for a couple of minutes, then gave it some throttle, and it's not responding well. My guess is, that the vacuum part of the carb (or some other part, maybe a jet?) is still frozen. Now it's unfreezing (hopefully) from the engine's heat, and soon I will be going to check it again, and, if it's no better, I'll start heating the carb with a hair dryer (hopefully that's enough).

If the garage would be heated then it would be better...
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  #131  
Old 20 Jan 2013
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Sooooo......

Started the bike, while it is idling I took off the seat, and blew warm air straight into the air filter. That worked. For a while.

I thought "I need to test it now", and I drove to the lake, drove around on ice for a few minutes, and again, carb started frosting.

I don't know if this propan-2-ol will help. Maybe it's moisture in the air, or what, but it doesn't help. I need to make some sort of warm air pickup, and only then it will work, I'm afraid

Older cars also has warm air pickup from the exhaust manifold.

Don't know what and how to do.........
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  #132  
Old 20 Jan 2013
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SOunds weird, perhaps cleaning the carb couldnt hurt?
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  #133  
Old 20 Jan 2013
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Maybe. Never had any problems though, and the problems started when I began driving full-throttle on the ice. I'll check that, and clean the carb if I can't find a solution.

Here's a bit of Wiki: Carburetor heat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So probably the only cure is getting some hot air to the carb...?
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  #134  
Old 21 Jan 2013
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Does the problem go away if you let it idle for a bit? that should easely bring enough heat to the carbs, of carbicing really is the problem.

You cen get direct hot air to the carb somehow, and <I've seen people talk about cobberwire going round the header, and then around the carb, to "pic up" heat and transfer it to the carb.

But you have to wonder, why are you the "only" one having a problem with carbice? Be sure the carb is in fully working order, before you go all in on the Mcgyver action

Good luck, and keep is updated.
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  #135  
Old 21 Jan 2013
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Just additional info on carb ice.

Carb Ice is not new, aircraft with carbs have a built in carb heat you turn on, mainly at landing time as you have backed off power, reducing normal heat flow. This just keeps the carbs clear of ice for the landing sequence and assures you will have full power if you need it.

The heat is ducted from the engine only when needed as it does reduce power.

I have seen it on my bikes ridden in winter cold and depends on temp/humidity. Like was said above, it you do ice up, just stop a while and it WILL melt away. Rather hard to do in an Aircraft.... Well the stopping is not hard, but restarting may be rather hard if you are in a heap....
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