Hello, i am the guy who did what you wont do, because you wanna get a moto and actually be able to ride it around the mainland. (bought another travelers bike for cheap) Although, this is the school of life, and im happy for every problem i got, because i simpley like growing.

Any way, i need your halp with a straight and absolut answer. Im in brasil now (rj/sp), the bike has a colombian plate and the temporary permit here is good for more 20 days. no option for extantion or anything else because the papers are not on my name and the first owner, the seller, he left the south amrica land already. So, me my self, i have more visa time here, but the bike should leave brasils border in 20 days. Now, i have been told once already by a travler, that countries dosnt let you in with an ownership that is not on your name.

But What i have now is a ownership original doc of the bike and a contract with this name on my name. The contract was stamped and declared by an official declaration (declaração) in sao paulo after Consulting with the local police on the situation i was into. That Declaration will probebly halp me inside brasil with a local police, but i dont know what is up in the longer trem, in time and space. So the question left now is:

i need to get to colombia, the official homeland of the bike, and get my docs well, maybe. Now, is it possible and i should try to cross to bolivia for exemple (dont have time to get to peru [4000km/20days/new rider] and venezuela is not verry possible for an israeli passport holder) and then cross to peru and finally get to colombia successfully, or i should sale the bike to a farmer asap and get some of my money back for at least?

Thank you for your time and my be all ride are way to the absolut good, Namaste

Hi Freedombird, I don't think you will get an absolute answer to your question on this forum. Whether you can cross a border with your current paperwork will depend very much on the officials you meet at the border. Is he in a good mood? Do you look trustworthy? Some will let you go. Others may not.
A current thread that you may find interesting is.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ing-documents- 90906

Looks like the link doesn't work.
The tread is titled:

a-question-morality-forging-documents

Freedombird,

Only YOU can learn the facts and make a decision, no one can make your decision for you.

There is some merit to what Mogy has posted about proper documentation exiting and entering South American countries.

Sometimes exceptions granted at borders by border officials, but this is very rare.
As a 12 year permanent foreign resident of Argentina who has ridden 55,000 K through 8 South American countries, finding a forgiving border agent willing to overlook the law is very difficult. His/her job may be threatened and his family relies on his/her for support. So you must consider if you are willing to put a person's job on the line so you can have some fun.

According to your post, you have contacted the local authority and are legal (maybe) to circulate in Brazil for 20 days - till June 20th or so.

Here are the facts:

1. If the insurance policy on the bike remains in the name of the legal owner, it might be valid as long as the bike has a valid TVIP (temporary vehicle import permit) issued upon entry to Brazil. But, you riding the bike may or may not be covered. Once the bike is being ridden illegally, the insurance becomes null and void and the original owner, you or anyone else riding the bike has no valid insurance. Insurance in mandatory in MERCOSUR countries. Brazil, Uruguay, Bolivia, Argentina, Chile etc
Most countries will confiscate the bike and charge the rider with an offense.

2. If you are involved in an accident with personal injury or substantial property damage without valid insurance you will be arrested until a judge determines cause and liabilities and without an insurance company to provide an attorney and bail money you will stay in jail. South American courts are notoriously slow - you could be in jail for months even years.
The South American jails are horrible - you have little or no human rights! I worked for the IRC International Red Cross for 3 years visiting foreigners in Mexican jails - many in jail because of accidents.

I hope the above facts help you make your decision. Remember for any insurance to be valid the bike must be operating legally in the country where the accident occurred. Many South American insurance companies sell insurance policies - knowing full well the company will never have to pay out any money because the small print on the policy includes the fact that the bike/vehicle is being operated legally.

Hope this helps you make your decision.

xfiltrate Eat, Drink and BE Careful

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

I believe the guy that sold you the bike said this http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ur-small-91886

What did he advise you? He seems a friendly soul ;-) and would have put your mind at rest, no?

__________________

Brighty's website: TheBrightStuffDotCom

CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

... so solve the problem yourself, and dont let others here try solve it for you, this is the only way to grow up.



mika

Perhaps my ideals are a bit dated, but Mika, really is not taking responsibility not a major part of "growing up" I have reviewed your materials at the referenced thread and have found them very wanting.

Look, if someone miscalculated and needs to drop the liability of a foreign registered bike onto another "tourist" lap fine, just let them say that to the tourist out front and not try to disguise it in "poders" and fly by night legalese.

As long as the party who had not the vision to understand that selling a foreign registered bike - by a tourist - to another tourist in a MERCOSUR country is illegal and not a viable answer to lack of planning - and informs the buyer of this fact, I have no problem - for then the buyer understands the liability he/she is taking on.

My problem is with [those who tell others that] the sale of a foreign registered bike in a MERCOSUR country is legal - IT IS NOT and therfore any insurance attached to that bike is null and void.

Why not just say this out front. If you do and the buyer still wants to buy I have no problem with that.

Again, I am only opposed to misrepresentations of TVIP law and illegal way arounds that end unsuspecting buyers in South American jails.

xfiltrate

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Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

Chris, main problem is that each time [someone] does it just once and then flies home with the sale price in his pocket so naming is a bit of a waste of time

My vehicle is for sale and this forms part of the information pack

and it goes on for a page or so listing many of the things that go wrong and providing solutions for them. Even then I suspect most people figure things out with their heart rather than their head because they blithely enter into arrangements that they would never even consider back home.

__________________
Tony
Click here for Travel Photos & Travel Map

[A]s eloquently stated by Tony LEE:

"most people figure things out with their heart rather than their head because they blithely enter into arrangements that they would never even consider back home "

and, I will add here....the sale of a foreign registered bike in a MERCOSUR country is [not] legal....therfore any insurance attached to that bike is null and void."

Yes, I did nationalize a foreign registered motorcycle in Argentina as allowed by Argentine law, but only after I became a permanent foreign resident of Argentina.

My permanent foreign resident status took me three years to acquire and was restricted to nationalize one vehicle within six months from the date my residence status was awarded.

As a temporary foreign resident (for three years) I could not nationalize a foreign vehicle.

And, as you might expect I paid 80% of the Blue Book value of the bike as an import fee. I have since learned there are legal way arounds the import fee for permanent foreign residents.
So there is a legal way to nationalize a foreign registered bike and then one can legally sell it in Argentina.

xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

[A]attorneys...might want to consult with their clients regarding the legalities of their title transfers.

xfiltrate

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Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina

I'm going to edit this thread a bit in hopes its more informative elements can remain for viewing. Some of the previous threads on this topic have devolved rapidly into name-calling and other attacks, and I'm hoping that can be avoided here.

Editing selectively takes time and is irritating. It's far easier to remove posts entirely, and easier still to remove whole threads.

Here's my suggestion for those posting: Address the question at hand. Do so succinctly, without excess verbiage, inflammatory terms, or meandering references to the various offenses of other people. If unable to do this, refrain from posting.

Thanks.

Mark

Markharf:

Question at hand: Editing

Comment: Excellent

Might have come sooner.

xfiltrate

__________________
Motorcycle Parking Buenos Aires, Argentina
www.xfiltrate.com
Discover how to legally Buy, Tour and Sell a motorcycle in Argentina