Hi All

I'm thinking of a trip to South America, which would take in all thirteen (well, twelve plus French Guiana strictly speaking) countries. I have two trucks, one petrol and one diesel and am considering the petrol for South America, but what is the petrol quality like there?

The engine wants 91 RON or above, is that something I can reliably find in South American countries? I'm a bit worried as it seems that petrol grades in the western hemisphere are pretty low.

Thanks for any insights,

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

I don't have a clear, simple answer for you, but I'll offer the following in case they're of interest:

First, you'll spend some time at high altitude--3-4000 meters is not uncommon, and ~5000 meters quite possible. In those areas, low octane petrol is the norm because that's what works.

Second, in Brazil you'll find very high percentages of ethanol in most petrol. Best think about whether that's a problem for your vehicle.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

Hi Mark

Altitude is a good point, that reduces oxygen density I assume and knocking, meaning a lower RON requirement.

Brazil is indeed a worry as I have read that petrol (not ethanol) is only 85 grade. If that's a European RON then my engine will not be happy. If it's a US (RON+MON)/2 then it's about 89-91 RON which should just about be good enough.

No idea what ethanol will do to my engine though, will have to look into it.

Cheers

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

Some diesel in some countries is absolutely terrible stuff - Bolivia for example. I also remember a woman from germany who had a new Mercedes RV with a diesel engine...it didn't last long until the catalytic converter was buggered from the high sulfur diesel in argentina. The point is that while you can find Ultra-Low-Sulfur diesel in some locations in the major cities, most of the time in the rural area you cannot. Also remember a couple with a 2008 Toyota FJ Cruiser that had to turn around coming south from Panama since the petrol wasn't 93 or above.

Not worried about diesel, mine is an old pre-common rail diesel with no emissions control, and will be very happy to have high sulphur diesel. We enjoyed thousands of litres of cheap Iranian diesel which I think has over 25,000 ppm sulphur (and stinks). Taking a ULSD vehicle out of the Europe / US and not expecting problems is just plain ignorant.

But we're talking about petrol... I know that my petrol engine is quite popular in South America as it's fitted to Hilux and Landcruiser models there, but it's possible that they have dropped the compression ratio, though I doubt it.

Problem is that once again the US chooses to use an arcane measuring system (RON + MON) / 2 meaning that '87' at the pump there is in fact 91-93 RON by the rest of the world's standards. So if south American countries follow this US convention the petrol is not as bad as it seems.

Cheers

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

First off, be careful what you call it. In Uruguay ask for a fillup with petrol and you will get diesel. In Argentina it's gasoil. In Chile diesel usually. Gas is bencina.

And so on and so on.

I live in Chile, have lived in Arg Uruguay and Brasil also. I have a bike and a car that call for min 97 and have often been stuck to put in lower unknown grades that were probably below 90 and they remain running. The ethanol seemed to kill performance and economy a bit but ran and didn't seem to damage anything. Usually you can get what they call 97 gas.

I also had a Hilux TurboDiesel and had a lot more problems getting adequate diesel. Not in Chile though, it's cheap and good there. Uruguay was the worst. And really expensive. I think you would be OK with an older vehicle.

I would be extremely surprised if Brasil, Argentina, Uruguay use the US convention for petrol grades - those countries are far more oriented towards European protocols than American. Venezuela, Ecuador, and Colombia are more America oriented and probably us American protocols. The dividing line in the region is the Amazon basin - areas above it are 'Caribbean' and areas below it are 'Southern Cone'. The 'Caribbean' zone is also called an American Lake - hence the heavy American influence in those countries protocols.

Diesel is extremely abundant everywhere in South America - easier to find diesel than petrol. And it's cheaper. Keep in mind that there are sections of South America where you will be at 5000meters altitude - so consider which engine is better suited. And lastly, the most important factor in your decision should be the local availability of spare parts - since many of the countries have 500% import duties on spare parts.

I live in Brasil and did a quick research about gasoline here.

We have 3 categories of gas:
Common (Comum) - 87 IAD (95 RON)
Premium - 93 IAD (98 RON)
Podium (only available at some BR/Petrobras fuel stations) - 95 IAD (102 RON)

IAD = (MON + RON)/2


More info (in portuguese):
- Petrobras
- Wikipedia

I know its may sound irrelevant but I am wondering how worse is the diesel in South America if compared with the African counterpart.

Two years in the Black continent with a 2003 turbodiesel Suzuki Vitara and we had zero problem considering the fuel that could not be better of South American. We were using lots of cleaners & additives though but still..

We are currently in Colombia with a Toyota Hiace 2.5 diesel EURO4 and we are struggling with the colombian biodiesel which includes 5-10% vegetable oil. Thick white smoke & terrible smell every morning is only the beginning and I dont want to think the consequences in the engine in the near future..

I still dont know what Supreme Diesel or Diesel with Techron that MOBIL/ESSO/ TEXACO sell, means and how better it is from common biodiesel.

Any input/ similar experience is highly appreciated.

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The Pin Project | Overland Greece

Great, thanks for that!

Is there always a high ethanol content in Brazilian fuel? Or is it easy to still find petrol with little or no ethanol?

Cheers

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

Since having both diesel and petrol trucks I always sniff the fuel nozzle to be sure of what I'm putting in. Thanks for the warning though!

I just wonder what system Chile uses to rate petrol / bencina. If it's the same as the US and Brazil (IAD or AKI, RON+MON/2) then 90 grade would be 94-96 RON and probably good enough for your engine demanding 97, at a pinch. If it really is 90 RON then I would have thought you would get either signs of knocking under load, a CEL, or at least pretty lousy fuel mileage as the engine's EFI system retards injection electronically.

According to Wikipedia:

Chile: 93, 95 and 97 RON are standard at almost all gas stations thorough Chile. The three types are unleaded.

So that would be approximately 88, 90, 92 AKI.

Cheers,

EO

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EurasiaOverland a memoir of one quarter of a million kilometres by road through all of the Former USSR, Western and Southern Asia.

In Brasil, it's illegal to sell petrol with less than 27% of ethanol content to consumers.

Cheers,
Bueno

Greetings EO

I travelled across Brazil in 2014 on a bike with carburettors and I was worried what the effect would be. Commun, Premium (also called Aditivada) and Podium all have 25% ethanol content, that's the mandated minimum amount. The pumps marked Ethanol are 100% ethanol.

The first time I filled there was local guy at the pumps who owned a Harley and when I asked him what the difference was between Commun and Aditivada He pointed at the pumps and replied.

"That's shit, and that's less shit"

He wasn't happy with the fuel quality and he was a local.

I always tried to fill up on the Podium but it's very expensive and only available at some Petrobras stations.

I only did about 3000km in Brazil so I can't tell what long term use of high level ethanol will do you vehicle. What I read was that it degrades rubber components (fuel hose) and that it can impact the Nikasil coating on engine cylinders that have it, my bike has both of these. I don't know any other effects, Google is your friend.

Riding the bike on the open road I didn't notice much loss of power and the fuel consumption didn't change much. The biggest impact was starting the bike in the morning and riding while the engine was cold/warming up. It was difficult to start, low power and prone to stopping at idle so I was always blipping the throttle to keep the revs up. Leaving towns in the morning was always exciting with the bike trying die while in traffic.

I hope that helps

IanJ

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Always have plan B, and maybe plan C
www.travelswithkitty.com

Gracias por la informacion!

By the way, we use products of Bluechem Group (Powermaxx/ Protec) for cleaning/ maintaining our diesel engines with excellent results ;-)

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The Pin Project | Overland Greece