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**xfiltrate** · #1 18 Jul 2017

Harley-Davidson cuts shipments forecast; shares skid | Reuters

Harley-Davidson's biggest market - the Baby Boomers - Born 1946 to 1964 are dismounting. Perhaps the market has been saturated or those of my generation have down traded down to walkers for transport.

Along with he rise in the stock the hearing aid companies (Many Harley riders in Arizona do not wear helmets and are always tweeking their throttles)
I have noted less Harleys doing Route 66 then previously.

What does this mean? Which are the bikes for the current and future generations? Actually on Route 66 dual sport bikes might be replacing the Harleys... Any guesses?

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**brclarke** · #2 18 Jul 2017

I've started to notice a shift in the demographics. I was out for a walk after work and noticed a few dozen different bikes. There were still a fairly large percentage that were large Harleys or Japanese cruisers, but I did spot a larger than usual number of sportbikes and dual purposes, enough that I noticed.

The cruiser bikes were piloted mostly by guys in their 50s and 60s, while the smaller caliber bikes were generally younger riders with a fair number of women. Of the dualies several were KLR650s fitted with hard panniers.

How well is the Harley Street 750 selling? That was supposed to be Harley's attempt at bringing in new riders to their marque with a more affordable bike. I see the occasional one on the road, but no more than say the number of Honda Shadows or Suzuki Boulevards. I suspect it is selling in okay numbers, but is not setting any sales records.

**backofbeyond** · #3 18 Jul 2017

I see a lot more Boomers / Gen X on bicycles than on motorcycles over here. Harley may be shifting less than before but lycra salesmen look very happy.

**grumpy geezer** · #4 19 Jul 2017

My theory is that it has a lot to do with mid-life crisis. You wanted to be a biker when you were younger but marriage, kids, being "responsible and respectable", losing your liking for death defying activity got in the way. You want to recapture you youth, buy a big bike, find out its a lot more fun to drive a Tundra than a Harley in the rain.

An adventure changes from being base jumping to taking the family to Disney World Adventure Land. Most Harley's sold are 4-5 years old, all tricked out, with less than 5k miles. Note to bikers from other countries--if you want an adventure, avoid Interstate and most federal highways.

**xfiltrate** · #5 20 Jul 2017

grumpy geezer got it exactly right with his advice to STAY OFF THE INTERSTATE HIGHWAYS there are many alternative routes that are far more interesting and without the 18 wheelers that always tax the smaller bikes.

Also the psych job done on the boomers this thread is pretty good, at least I agree with most of the analysis. There is one more factor - the advertising - have you seen the fifty something gentleman astride his big bike - now featured even in Big Pharma commercials - somehow the phallusness (new word) of a big engine between legs, no matter how spindly the legs are is a great compensator.

As the boys begin to lose it they look for stiffeners - and voila the marketing firms understand this and provide stiffeners in the form of big engines with the right proximity to the failing parts.

You know how they sold "pet rocks" this for those who know what a pet rock is; they leaked that some pet rocks had gold inside - and sales boomed. You know how they sold Alka Zeltzer? They leaked to pharmacists that if a woman took an Alka Zeltzer vaginally sex would be greatly enhanced.

You know how they sold Harleys ? Just guess!

xfiltrate eat , drink and wear your helmet

**Threewheelbonnie** · #6 21 Jul 2017

I can see Harley struggling with their marketing. They think they are showing me Denis Hopper, but I'm 43 so see the Village People.

They don't want to drop my dads generation which makes sense (for now). What I don't get is why they don't put their engine in a Triumph/Vincent shaped frame that will appeal to Europeans, Hipsters, Indians who don't want to wait for the Enfield twin, and market it under one of the other brands they own. Aermachi springs to mind. I think they fear the fact that as they couldn't market it through their cruiser dealerships they'd risk competeing against themselves.

Andy

**brclarke** · #7 21 Jul 2017

Dropping their engine into a sportier bike? Like Buell?

I always thought it was penny-wise pound-foolish for HD to drop Buell: they should have hung in there for a few more years and given it a real chance.

**AnTyx** · #8 21 Jul 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie

What I don't get is why they don't put their engine in a Triumph/Vincent shaped frame

I guess they are trying that with the Street 750? Inasmuch as they can...

Quote:

that will appeal to Europeans, Hipsters

A Harley is not nearly obscure and ironic enough for hipsters. Now, an Aermacchi, like how Benelli is now a badge slapped onto Chinese bikes... yeah, that I can see. And Europeans who buy Harleys want the full dumb experience I think.

Quote:

I think they fear the fact that as they couldn't market it through their cruiser dealerships they'd risk competeing against themselves.

Yeah, in terms of long-since-paid-for tech & tooling versus average transaction price, I don't think anything in the motorcycle world can compete with HD for profit margins.

**xfiltrate** · #9 21 Jul 2017

Let's not forget, that the Harley Davidson is far and away the bike of choice for young urban Argentines.
The two greatest causes of death of Argentine men is One: falling off their own egos.

and Two: dying of a broken heart because even if they can afford a Harley, there are none available.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...ious/22060306/

In Buenos Aires after I fell into the ownership of a 1980s EVO sportster bored out to 1200ccs I was inundated with offers to buy. I was even threatened. The re sale value of Argentine registered Harleys is easily 5 X that in the USA or Europe. If the Harley is tricked out or painted, the street value could be as much as 10X for a comparable purchase in the USA.

So, if Harley were to work with the Argentine aduana (customs) with "Trump" and "Macri" helping the "deal." Harley could open up a whole new market and mend many broken hearts of thousands of Argentine men by avoiding the exorbitant import duties on Harleys and Harley parts now is place, and selling Harleys for a reasonable price in Argentina...
As for as the corruption factor, a few Harleys gifte to the right people might take care of that problem - or Harley could learn a trick or two from Argentine BMW dealers.... Yes there are Harley dealers in Buenos Aires, and yes the prices are out of reach for all but the criminals and the very rich.

The video shows President Macri and the Argentine first Lady and former model Juliana being greeted by President Trump and North America's first Lady and former model Malania - who is either going for the GAUCHO look or giving a shout out to the past military dictators of Argentina.

Eat, Drink and keep your eye on Melania Trump's outfits....
and PS,
First Lady of Argentina Juliana, apparently also wired into why the USA dishes out foreign aid ( which actually ends up in the hands of US companies supporting the wealthy foreigners) - at least in the recent past -when the shooting stopped... it is "to keep foreigners from going RED!" Some of this may be a little esoteric or blurred into my personal foreign experiences, but I know some will get it. But, looks like Juliana is reminding President Trump of China's / PRC tremendous influence in Argentina.

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