Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech
Fuel crystallization? Fuel crystallization?
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts
Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Photo by Andy Miller, UK, Taking a rest, Jokulsarlon, Iceland

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Andy Miller, UK,
Taking a rest,
Jokulsarlon, Iceland



Like Tree4Likes
  • 1 Post By turboguzzi
  • 1 Post By Jay_Benson
  • 2 Post By N67

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17 Sep 2021
N67's Avatar
N67 N67 is offline
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dusheti, Georgia
Posts: 201
Fuel crystallization?
Hello everyone.

maybe asking something very basic, but somehow this thing gets important first time during 6 years of riding this bike ('02 xt600e).

(this color might be skipped by more experienced people).
few days ago in some mountains engine suddenly become very weird at some throttle openings - maybe from 1/4 to 1/2: unstable revs, much more shaky, backfires... obviously accompanied with negative emotions and crazy fuel consumption.
actually for the first time it happened right after ~3 mins of rather continuous engine braking around 2500m of altitude, when descending on sharp downhills.
tried to still continue riding. few minutes and somehow everything is normal again.
working title of this thing was "altitude sickness" by that time.
it was long ride to home and during it this syndrome used to appear and disappear randomly, and the range of unstability also changed randomly: sometimes from 0-1/4, sometimes 1/2-3/4.
starting was not always easy.
highest revs seemed generally better.
after normal conditions, cold/higher places used to trigger this syndrome to appear again.
couple roadside draining of carbs did little to no help.

finally got home and removed carbs.
was surprised with this white somehow solid, but very flimsy and dry thing, looking like thin film of fine crystals stuck together, habitating mostly in primary carb and not only. a bit in secondary. around fuel cap center. at the endings of draining pipes etc.






all jets / needles, float, fuel container, pipes etc. were clean at the moment of disassembly.

despite of always getting fuel at trusted network of fuel stations, only guess for now still is a bad fuel.

well, obvious questions are what the #### is this thing and how to avoid it happening again.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 18 Sep 2021
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 610
do you know if they add any ethanol to fuel in georgia?


in any case, this is not an XT specific problem, I bet you get LOTS more response in one of the general HU forums, here there is hardly any traffic...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18 Sep 2021
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 843
If it doesn't happen again I'd go with the contaminated fuel theory. I once had a bad batch, it was from a station that didn't sell much fuel so I guess water got in or the higher fractions had evaporated off leaving poor quality behind. Some petrol station owners in some parts of the world *might* add stuff to their tanks to bump up their profits as well, you never know.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 18 Sep 2021
N67's Avatar
N67 N67 is offline
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dusheti, Georgia
Posts: 201
thank you guys for answers.

turboguzzi, ethanol also appears one of my assumption. in earlier times definitely no. hence it is somehow unknown to me - only thing i'm aware of is that ethanol is able to absorb some moisture from atmosphere and will encourage steel tanks to rust.
will wait for monday and try to find out something in official ways..

Tomkat, in the country where i live it's not surprising at all when big or small business owners make shitty things for more profit.
on the road back had to refuel twice (more than half of the tank each time) on different stations and seemed that it made no difference - this crystals appeared both time on tank cap.

meanwhile, talked to some friends with carbureted bikes and appears that since recently, they also had same issues with more or less troubles. and same complains from delivery gang on scooters. really seems like some recent general changes in fuel supply here. maybe even ethanol. just have no idea if fuel with some ethanol could do such things.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 18 Sep 2021
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 313
We (Colorado USA) have been using ethanol (up to 10%, I think) for years. I've never seen crystals form like that.

Ethanol does seem to 'go bad' more quickly, 6-8 weeks is a long time for it. But it turns greenish and kind of slimy when it does.

I wonder if some cretin sabotaged that bike with something that does crystallize- like sugar or salt in the tank.

Have you been chatting up people's wives at the bars, or cheating in card games? (just kidding).

Whatever, that doesn't look so good, does it?

................shu
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18 Sep 2021
N67's Avatar
N67 N67 is offline
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dusheti, Georgia
Posts: 201
shu..., thanks for sharing more info about ethanol.

won't think about any sabotage, since bike was used on daily basis in quite remote places with no bars and no bad intentions ( :
getting back and discovering that now this syndrome appears not a rare thing around.

and yes, that's exactly how the carburetors should not look like.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19 Sep 2021
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,785
Looks like ice to me? Does it melt?

Icing is an ethanol/water problem. The ethanol concentrates any water in the tank and has less energy so the whole cycle of more concentrated water and less heat promotes ice.

My 2003 XT was a swine for icing.

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19 Sep 2021
R.I.P. 25 November 2021
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi View Post
do you know if they add any ethanol to fuel in georgia?
I think the they add ethanol right across the USA, no choice. (from reading on this forum).

Mezo.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 19 Sep 2021
N67's Avatar
N67 N67 is offline
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dusheti, Georgia
Posts: 201
Hi Andy
somehow it looks like an ice, a fine hoarfrost to be more clear.
it does not melt by itself at ~20c, but is not sticky and goes away easily.
Last edited by N67; 21 Sep 2021 at 13:17. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20 Sep 2021
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 610
collect some and send to the nearest chemical lab.... mistery solved...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20 Sep 2021
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Belper, uk, EUROPE
Posts: 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi View Post
collect some and send to the nearest chemical lab.... mistery solved...
White crystals? Are you sure you want someone to analyse what they are?
__________________
You will have to do without pocket handkerchiefs, and a great many other things, before we reach our journey's end, Bilbo Baggins. You were born to the rolling hills and little rivers of the Shire, but home is now behind you. The world is ahead.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20 Sep 2021
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by N67 View Post
Hi Andy
somehow it looks kike ice, a fine hoarfrost to be more clear.
it does not melt by itself at ~20c, but is not sticky and goes away easily.

Is it waxy?

At 20C it isn't water ice for sure.

Something like paraffin?

Is your tank metal? No chance it's fibreglass residue from either the tank or an attempt to repair the tank?

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 21 Sep 2021
N67's Avatar
N67 N67 is offline
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dusheti, Georgia
Posts: 201
turboguzzi, it might not be very easy but doable - still keeping this old fuel and with some more time might try to find it out.

Andy, it is more dry.
tank is metal and since this thing used to happen not only with my bike recently, it quite seems like some particular additive which appeared in few brands of fuels since maybe from end of the august.

meanwhile, some updates for now - emptied/rinsed the tank, tried fuel of other brand which couple friends have suggested, as it so far was not seen be crystalize. had a short test ride and so far everything going well.

about ethanol in georgia - seems that it not being used as ICE fuel.
couple companies stated this straight, but ways of answers of some others made me more sure: "etha..what?" : )
Reply With Quote
Reply

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 2 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Comprehensive Guide To West Africa - Without Carnet Wanted sub-Saharan Africa 48 17 Jan 2020 22:50
Ethanol in fuel - older bikes information Jake Tech 21 7 Jan 2018 15:53
DR650 - Safari Tank - Starved of fuel, why? DR650Bandit Suzuki Tech 35 22 Nov 2017 05:15
Tales from the Saddle klous-1 Ride Tales 88 4 Feb 2016 21:30
Bolivia - RHD ? fuel ?? security !!!‏ Phil Flanagan South America 1 7 Dec 2012 17:05

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

  • Virginia: April 24-27 2025
  • Queensland is back! May 2-4 2025
  • Germany Summer: May 29-June 1 2025
  • CanWest: July 10-13 2025
  • Switzerland: Date TBC
  • Ecuador: Date TBC
  • Romania: Date TBC
  • Austria: Sept. 11-14
  • California: September 18-21
  • France: September 19-21 2025
  • Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2 2025

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

Your ad could be here, on EVERY page of the HUBB, or the whole website, or as many as you like!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:28.

Contact Us - Horizons Unlimited Motorcycle Travellers Website - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top